Uncovering Generational Relationship Wounds and Holistic Healing with Jayden Aubryn

Episode 090:
Uncovering Generational Relationship Wounds and Holistic Healing with Jayden Aubryn

What an amazing conversation this was!

I had the pleasure of talking with Jayden Aubryn, a trailblazing psychotherapist whose insights into intentional living challenge the norms of relationships.

We talked about so much that it was hard to narrow it down to one topic. All of their information is tied to the methodology of holistic healing - looking at our whole self, not as separate parts but as a complex person made up of so many aspects interwoven into one.

We discuss:
Generational Influence on our emotional landscape
Holistic healing and what our poo says about our emotional state
The intersection of gender and relationship diversity
What our emotions are trying to tell us
How to choose intentional living as opposed to default living

And so much more!

You don't want to miss this one!

Connect with Jayden:
Website | Instagram

This is Relationships Reimagined.

Join the conversation as we dive into a new paradigm of conscious, intentional and diverse relationships.
  
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Podcast Music by Zachariah Hickman

Transcript

Jayden Aubryn: 0:00

For the millennials of odor, gen Z I think a lot of it is we were taught to not engage with our bodies as most people, but also at a much earlier age we started to realize how that wasn't working. So a lot of us were raised by Gen Xers and Boomers which, when we really think about this, people who grew up under the threat of nuclear war, did nuclear war drills, fire drills, but weren't allowed to talk about or show feelings. All of those people had children. Of course, our generations got some issues.

Carrie Jeroslow: 0:37

Welcome to the Relationship Diversity podcast, where we celebrate, question and explore all aspects of relationship structure diversity, from solaramary to monogamy to polyamory and everything in between, because every relationship is as unique as you are. We'll bust through societal programming to break open and dissect everything we thought we knew about relationships, to ask the challenging but transformational questions who am I and what do I really want in my relationships? I'm your guide, Keri Jarislow, bestselling author, speaker, intuitive and coach. Join me as we reimagine all that our most intimate relationships can become. Today's episode is part of our conversation series. I'm just one voice in this relationship diversity, movement and it's important to bring more unique perspectives into the conversation.

Carrie Jeroslow: 1:37

Today I'll be talking with Jaden Aubren about their methodologies and perspective on holistic healing, your emotions and what they're really communicating, as well as how to move from default living and into intentional living, specifically within relationships. We'll also talk about the different challenges that generations have, specifically millennial and Gen Z'ers. But first a little about them. Jaden Aubren they them is a black, queer, non-binary and ethically non-monogamous psychotherapist, personal trainer and DEI consultant. They believe in the holistic healing of trauma using movement, music, art, food and everyday interactions so that healing can be accessible and fun. Let's get into the conversation. Hello everyone and welcome to this episode of Relationship Diversity Podcast. Oh, I am so excited to have my guest with me today. Today I have Jaden Aubren here and they are going to talk about intentional living and intentional decisions and choices in relationships. This is their specialty and I'm so excited to get into this conversation. So welcome, jaden, to the podcast.

Jayden Aubryn: 3:02

Thanks so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here.

Carrie Jeroslow: 3:06

I am so happy to have connected with you because I feel that you have experienced education and knowledge in an area that maybe I know, but I know with my generation, which is Gen X'ers. But you have a lot of experience with millennials, gen Z'ers and even Gen Alpha's, and so I'm really excited to get into this conversation with you. But first I'd love to start with you telling us a little bit more about yourself and about how you got into the work that you do.

Jayden Aubryn: 3:39

I feel like you'll learn a lot about me as I talk about the work that I do, because I've really tried to live a very integrative life. So who I am in work is very similar to who I am outside of work. I like to think of myself as someone who enjoys healing trauma and guiding others to heal through trauma, and that looks like different ways that can be on a systemic level, with organizations and shifting workplace cultures, individuals, couples and the gym for people who have trauma around eating and their body and want to get healthier. But really, what has led me to doing all that is understanding that emotions are your body's way of communicating with you, and we've had really terrible experiences, or even experiences you wouldn't say are that terrible, but your body did not enjoy them. We end up avoiding a lot of our emotions and then those emotions they just get stuck in our body and most of what we do is unconscious, and so we end up having all these unconscious emotions that we're acting on and not realizing it, and they were like well, why don't I like my life? And so by being a bit more aware of what's happening in your body and what it's saying to you, you get to just live a much more intentional life and start to make some different choices.

Jayden Aubryn: 4:56

And I think I really got here because I'm a Black, queer, non-binary person who went to grad school to become a therapist in Kentucky in 2016, which was really just not a great time for me personally to be in Kentucky with political things going on. I had to have a very open mind. I was learning all of these things and I was like this wouldn't work for me, like I'm a therapy client or I've been a therapy and that didn't work for me, or that wouldn't work for my friends and I was really the only one with my perspective. So, as I got trained, I started looking at, thinking about different ways to look at the world and information and came up with my own little way to relate to emotions, and I can offer that to other people who are needing something a bit different as well.

Carrie Jeroslow: 5:41

Do you mind sharing some of the big emotions that you faced in your own healing journey?

Jayden Aubryn: 5:48

Oh, yeah, yeah, I struggled a lot growing up with emotional regulation, specifically with anger, had quite a temper. It's really funny because I think my therapy clients now I know they tell me they're like, oh, you wouldn't understand or you don't know how hard it is. And I was like yo, you y'all don't know and if you knew you probably wouldn't want me to be your therapist. The things I did were wild. But yeah, I really struggled with anger. And then also I had a very low sense of self. I couldn't be alone. I would just not eat sometimes because I was too afraid and undergrad go to the dining hall and sit by myself and eat. So if I could find a friend to eat with me, I just wouldn't eat. Right, I couldn't be alone. And I really struggled in relationships. I struggled with jealousy. I struggled with does anyone actually like me? Just any security in a relationship. It took me quite a while to figure out how to have that.

Carrie Jeroslow: 6:54

Thank you for sharing and and vulnerability sharing that. I think that a lot of people get into therapy or coaching because they have gone that path. They have worked and found holes in maybe the types of therapy that they've done and want to help people also get from that really wounded place to a more wholesome place. Wholesome meaning whole, not wholesome. And so when you talk about, emotions are a way of your body communicating with you. What did you feel that the anger was communicating with you? What was it saying to you?

Jayden Aubryn: 7:36

I feel that anger is usually telling me that my boundaries have been crossed or which is maybe I'm not moving in a value aligned way or I'm not in a value aligned environment.

Jayden Aubryn: 7:47

And I think that growing up I had a lot of anger because as children, we're not always listened to, we're not always respected, and there were harmful things that happened in my family and I was taught to just be okay with them and should just move past them.

Jayden Aubryn: 8:06

And that was not in line with my values which I didn't know at the time, but it wasn't and a lot of my boundaries were crossed emotionally, physically, and I was supposed to just move past it, because they happen from family members or friends, don't hold grudges, or whatever it was, and I never really got to honor that emotional expression. I also didn't know how to express anger productively. No one taught me how to do that. And so when I realized that I had a right to be angry at my situation, I wasn't just being ungrateful or anything like that, it was a valid emotion. It really just gave me that permission to just be like okay, you're angry, tell me why that makes sense. What do we do with that? And as soon as I did that, the anger went away because they didn't have anything to tell me anymore. I got the message.

Carrie Jeroslow: 8:59

That's beautiful. I always talk about the Carl Jung what you resist persists. If we resist that emotion, even if we get into that avoidant state, it's still going to be there and sometimes get stronger, many times get stronger. And so, with the information that you have and the reason why I keep coming back to your stories, I think stories are so powerful we learn from other people's experience. But now, when you feel that anger, you now have information about what that anger might be telling you, so I would think that that would then give you the opportunity to maybe respond in a different way. Do you find that?

Jayden Aubryn: 9:42

Yeah for sure. I think now I am very inclusive of like okay, I'm, I know I'm getting angry and I'm no longer quick to anger before I was like I can get angry over anything, so it was a little hard to trust that feeling.

Jayden Aubryn: 9:59

But with being not as quick to anger, I'm like, oh, I'm feeling angry now. This is not where I typically am emotionally. What is going on? Why am I feeling this way? What boundaries being crossed Do I feel like the amount of anger I'm experiencing is equivalent to the situation that's going on, because if not, then I need to look a little bit deep, like what's going on underneath that.

Carrie Jeroslow: 10:24

And if it is?

Jayden Aubryn: 10:25

yeah, I'm going to vent. I'm a dancer, so I'm going to dance or I'm going to go to the gym. There's so many different ways to engage with anger. I might angrily journal or just listen to angry music. But it's this balance of honoring the anger and also figuring out like hey, what are you actually trying to tell me about it?

Carrie Jeroslow: 10:41

I love those two aspects of it honoring it. Honoring it and not shaming it Because there was a time, probably in my teenage years, that I had anger, but I was told a lot in my life that I'm too sensitive and that kept me from sharing my feelings because I felt very shamed by it. It was always said to me in a way that it was bad, not that it was a good thing. So I love that honoring. And when I started to honor my sensitivity, then I realized, oh, I actually am very empathic and it helped me in terms of I was director, it helped me in terms of my directing and my coaching and writing and all of that. So it became a positive thing and not something that I was feeling really bad about.

Carrie Jeroslow: 11:26

So honoring is such an important part of it. And then you said really conversing with it and understanding the deeper message, because I do believe that those kind of things are working for us if we allow it to. I feel like we want to go back to wholeness. Can you talk about that in terms of this holistic healing that you do? Can you talk a little bit more about what holistic healing is and how you integrate that into your work?

Jayden Aubryn: 11:54

I define holistic healing as one breaking down these barriers that we've made between mental, physical, sexual, spiritual health. I always say we have one fat sack and it does not care about artists like distinctions for insurance purposes. We're an organism and we're operating as a whole thing, and so when we're looking at health, I want to look at all of it. If you're telling me you had an unusually bad week, the first thing I'm going to ask is how is your eating and how is your sleeping? I'm going to ask about your physical health. I also ask about your poop because, honestly, if you ask them how they're doing and you answer with the quality of your poop, everyone has a very good idea of how you're doing emotionally.

Carrie Jeroslow: 12:40

Wow, I love that. Okay, go into that just for a moment. We'll continue on this conversation, but go into that a little bit more with examples, because that's fascinating. And I agree with you, I'm a huge, I've done a lot of fasts and cleanses and things like that, but I want you to explain it with your words.

Jayden Aubryn: 12:59

Yeah, well, if you are really constipated, you might be stressed, you might be emotionally constipated. I've had people like I can't express my feelings and then they have an increase in constipation. If you're having diarrhea, that doesn't feel good. It can feel as emptiness in your stomach after diarrhea and what we know. When you're having diarrhea, you're actually not absorbing the nutrients as well as you need to, and a lot of the chemicals that are being produced when you're experiencing stress and anxiety they happen in the stomach. So there's a lot of stomach things that are correlated with mental health.

Jayden Aubryn: 13:35

Even if you're doing a cleanse, okay, that means you're in a transitional time. There's something going on and you are intentionally putting your body through a type of stressor to have a particular outcome, and so, like you're in this, in transitional times are going to be a form of stress, and so we can expect that your body is responding to stress, and not all stress is bad stress, right, but your body is responding to a stressor and we need to wait a time period and see what is going on, maybe in a week after the cleanse is done or like whatever the cleanse guidelines are right. We want to be attentive to that. So if you're having any moushes, we're like, okay, it's not because you're a terrible person, it's because you're in the middle of a transition, mm-hmm.

Carrie Jeroslow: 14:20

Yeah, the longest fast cleanse that I did was 21 days where I really I drank a solution that got me nutrients but it was pretty much not eating for 21 days and I've done it three times and I always say it is more emotional than it is physical. There are the physical pangs hunger pangs but it is really emotional and I find myself going through the emotions that maybe I never processed through. Memories will come up and so it is very much tied to my mental health whenever I do those cleanses. So there's a lot with that. Okay, so I love that conversation about poop and so what are the other things that you look at in terms of this whole body healing?

Jayden Aubryn: 15:07

Okay. So sexual and spiritual health. One of my intake questions is are you satisfied with your libido? That can tell me a lot in either direction. But then also I like to talk about healing in a holistic way, especially as a therapist.

Jayden Aubryn: 15:22

A lot of people think that they're just going to come in and we're only going to talk, which is really. It's not even using. Your whole brain really is your. That's very frontal lobe broke us area of focus. But all these emotions are happening in your emotions are happening in your body, so we need to get into the body, and I like to do that Obviously. Talking about food, using music, movement of various sorts. One of the biggest shames right now in our society is that we've correlated movement and exercise to weight loss instead of health, and so I regularly teach workshops on how do you use movement to address your mental health symptoms. Are all of these things that really can help get you in your body in a safe way Right Cause if you're not used to being in your body, you just jump in. That can be very triggering and damaging. So how do you do that safely?

Carrie Jeroslow: 16:16

And so there's a physical body component, emotional, mental, and I really do appreciate it. I've talked about this many times before. My first experience with therapy was very much talk therapy and I was so angry about it because I processed things in my mind a little bit differently and I just felt like I was just spinning wheels with that therapy. So what about a spiritual aspect?

Jayden Aubryn: 16:41

Oh yeah, yeah, I think spiritual health is so important and really making a big distinction between spirituality and religion here, and when I'm looking at someone's spiritual health, I'm looking at their values. What brings them meaning? How do they connect to things that are bigger than themselves? That could be community organizing. I've had clients who have found spirituality, the BDSM and King community, and being part of that community is as bigger than me. It could be connecting with nature, it could be your past, but this connection to something bigger than yourself and also this is going to get into world views. How do you feel about death, which is also going to influence how you feel about an approach to life If a lot of times, we don't even talk about these things? So if we don't talk about them, you can't be intentional.

Carrie Jeroslow: 17:38

Right, I love your explanation of that spiritual aspect that everyone has. It's just something that's bigger and it's the first time I really heard talked about in that way of maybe not always being this intangible thing, but something that is even in this world and bigger than yourself, like a movement or world views those kinds of things. And I love the discussion of BDSM for healing. I've done an episode about that and I think a lot of people have a lot of untrue perspectives and beliefs that they have about what BDSM is, and I've been educated to see that there is a lot of healing that can come from BDSM and kink. So I appreciate you talking and even that idea of the bigger community, that there is something bigger than just your own life. And then I just also want to say that I love what you said about death and your perspectives about death, because I think that the fear of death keeps so many people from living their life and to look at that is huge and scary, but also really necessary and freeing, I would think.

Jayden Aubryn: 18:54

You know, they did a study and people who have had near death experiences end up becoming bus afraid of death because they realized that it is actually this. It's not an easy word. They have a trouble communicating, but maybe a peaceful. There's something that is something they don't need to be afraid of and when it comes they'll be ready for it. And generally they come back from near death experiences wanting to be much more connected to the people around them. They're more willing to try new things that they wouldn't have done before. A lot of big career shifts, people who maybe work in isolation or work in jobs where maybe, like law enforcement, those shifts to like more helping professions. They've looked at ancient journals from 2000 years ago across cultures to, obviously, the science that we can do now, and it's been pretty consistent.

Carrie Jeroslow: 19:50

So I love that and I will say that you don't have to have a near-death experience To have what you were just talking about, because I went down well.

Carrie Jeroslow: 20:00

I say this because I went down the rabbit hole of watching people who have had near-death experiences Talk about their experience, and it's all on YouTube. There's several channels that are devoted to it and whenever I get in a fear space, I go on and I watch those and it definitely brings more peace to me and more intentionality into living here in the body while I'm here, and it brought that sense of peace to me. So you don't have to have a near-death experience, just go listen to some. But I am I'm glad to know that there are studies being done about that. This is all such great stuff because we talk about Relationship diversity here on this podcast. I'd love to start to move the conversation a little bit in that direction. You work with lots of different people, but you have said that you typically work with more gender diverse, relationship diverse People. Can you talk a little bit about that and maybe how those two things intersect?

Jayden Aubryn: 21:05

I'm a bit of a unicorn of a person and, more specifically, a therapist, and so I'm pretty open about being Nominogamous and queer and non-binary, depending on the setting. I'll say that I am also kinky and so I think that a lot of people who are Different from like mainstream identities but they gravitate towards me because they're like ah, this person's got all these weird, different identities, they'll get me. I definitely attract diverse folks and the gender and relationship diverse thing. There's definitely a big intersection there and I think it also intersects with queerness and that when you are having to figure out gender something as Relevant to your everyday life as a gender, or something that's relevant to your everyday life as who you love and who you're sexually attracted to, you have to ask a lot of questions. Right they're.

Jayden Aubryn: 22:07

There are more templates now they're starting to become more, but, especially growing up myself as a millennial, there was not a lot of. There's one in a lot of examples of what it was like to be queer and gender diverse. I knew that T existed, like trans people existed, because the acronym LGBT, but I didn't know anything about being trans, and a lot of the queer and trans elders unfortunately died during the HIV AIDS epidemic so we truly just didn't have a lot of people Visible and alive to show us what it was like to live a different life and not a non-hetero life.

Jayden Aubryn: 22:52

And so, while we're already thinking about some of these really, really big questions, it's pretty natural to think about like okay, how do we engage in relationship? And Realizing that there's a lot of different ways to be in relationship and obviously you don't need to be queer or gender diverse to have a diverse relationship structure. But I think that there is this big overlap because we're already asking those questions and already trying to Write our own rulebook, and so once we get to the relationship section, we're having a bit more of a critical analysis of do I want to be monogamous or where are the other options? Where's my partner one? What are our needs? All of these things.

Carrie Jeroslow: 23:35

Do you find that the inquiry into gender diversity typically comes before Relationship questioning, or do you feel the other way around, or both?

Jayden Aubryn: 23:50

I think it really just depends on the person, their relationship with their own body and Also what they're exposed to. So to consider relationship diversity, a lot of times you have to Be aware that that's an option, right, right, so that that's more about your environment. Growing up, I probably ever dated. I didn't have any partners. Through high school. I very minimal. I always thought dating was dumb. I didn't understand casual dating. I was like why would I I tie myself down to one person when I could do all of these things with multiple people? That didn't make any sense to me. I was like I'm not in love with you actively, why would I date you? I never understood the concept of Casual dating, but I also had no exposure to the idea of non monogamy. So that was an environmental thing and I think that gender diversity that's more of a A internal questioning.

Jayden Aubryn: 24:53

Also, growing up, I always knew I was like I would say I feel like I was a guy, a Male, in my past life or I would say it's like man. If by gender was a thing, if I could be two genders at once, I think that's what I would be not realizing that it was a thing, but I always had an internal sense that I was not Female, which is where I was assigned at birth, and I would dress in various ways. I thought I'm very gender fluid. So there are one days I come in with back pants and very masculine presenting. In the next day I'd be wearing heels. I got to really act on that a bit more because I was checking in with myself, but also if, again, checking in with your body is really traumatic and difficult or dangerous. I luckily lived in a place where I could do a bit of that exploration and not be at risk of death. So it's very individual.

Carrie Jeroslow: 25:46

Yeah, I can hear that and I think for some people, gender identification is very much an internal job. It's all about. You talked about knowing yourself and knowing what feels right in your body, and I do think for some people, relationship diversity is also that way. And it sounds like that for you is that you knew Somewhere, even though you didn't have the words for it, that why would I want to time myself down with casual dating? And so there was this knowledge that came from inside of you, and I always say that to know what you want, you need to know yourself. You need to know who you are as best as possible and also understand that you're always evolving. So there is always an evolution. That happens in relationships too. But you're right, the education I think maybe people, even if they don't understand what they're feeling in terms of their own gender identity and then get education, say, oh, that is what I have been, I've been feeling the T and the LGBT, but I didn't know, because that was what I was feeling and for me I don't look at relationship diversity I would say non monogamy as an identity, because for me it was very circumstantial and it was more in, I guess, my identity as a questioning, always asking why, why is it that way? Maybe that is my identity, of being someone who's just always questioning things and Asking why does it have to be that way? But in terms of what you said, I don't have that experience of like why. I always wondered why I would time myself down. That was, and maybe that was just programming that I had Growing up of. That's just. I only saw monogamous relationships, that's all I was shown, and so it sounds to me it's like an knowing yourself, but also getting the education and the information, and that's what I really appreciate.

Carrie Jeroslow: 27:42

With your work. I think you are a pioneer. We need pioneers because, you're right, there's a lot of people, specifically in the transgender world, who are not here the elders who are teaching and and speaking and educating, and so you are a pioneer for that. So thank you for your work. I want to move to the millennial Gen Zers and ask you what are the challenges that you are seeing Millennials and Gen Zers and maybe we even Distinguish the two, because maybe they're experiencing different challenges. Well, what are the challenges that you are seeing these generations go through in terms of Relationships?

Jayden Aubryn: 28:25

I'm about to say it's going to apply for millennials and then to the older generations of Gen Z. So I think that the more alpha, younger Gen Z, cuz, there's some different challenges, but for the millennials and older Gen Z, I think a lot of it is. We were taught to not engage with our bodies as most people, but also at a much earlier age, we start to realize how that wasn't working. So a lot of us were raised by Gen Xers and boomers which, like, when we really think about this, people who grew up under the threat of nuclear war, did the nuclear war drills, fire drills, but weren't allowed to talk about or show feelings. All of those people had children. Of course, our generations got some issues that's generational trauma, like so clearly, as you were saying, of being told that emotions and expressing emotions made you too sensitive and that was undesirable. Okay, well, children do express emotions and not to do that, we're taught to disconnect from our bodies, and so I think that that was a challenge that a lot of generations have had. But, gen Zers, we also got the internet at a bit of an earlier age, and so there's a bit more of us realizing wait a minute, something's not right here and I can now connect to other people. I'm not just stuck in my little ecosystem of all of us are being traumatized in the same way. I go to school and I'm like, oh yeah, my mom did this thing to me. And they're like, oh yeah, my mom did that and worse. And we're like, okay, well, now I'm realizing this was all abuse and we were just commiserating and it took being able to meet other people from other communities and find out about people who had different ways of living and different ideas and different values. Be like, oh, wait a minute. One, I can do things a different way. And two, what I went through was harmful. And how do I get there? Oh, I need to check in with my body. Why can't I check in with my body? Oh, because I was taught not.

Jayden Aubryn: 30:38

We're like I think that is what's so special about this age group is we started to figure it out, and I think the younger generation they have this information even earlier, which I actually think is starting to become harmful. One of our body's coping mechanisms when we're going through difficult things and traumatic things is to downplay it. I think of the scenes in TV where someone's stabbed in the back and then someone's like did you realize you have a knife in your back? And they're like oh my God, I didn't know and now I feel the end of it, so much pain. The body will just not make you aware until you're ready to deal with it.

Jayden Aubryn: 31:16

And so now we have like very young children who are still emotionally maturing and they're on the internet and realizing that the things that they're going through are actually quite traumatic, and they're becoming aware of it before they're ready to deal with it. And so they're like oh crap, I'm in this traumatic situation and I don't have an escape because I'm a child. I don't really have options because I'm a child. And so that's the whole swinging to the pendulum to the other side, something that is becoming difficult. So, yeah, when we're talking about generational problems, those are the ones I'm seeing.

Carrie Jeroslow: 31:50

I'm fascinated by generations and I love what you said is when you put yourself in the generation of the boomers and what they went through.

Carrie Jeroslow: 32:00

It makes sense that without education and information and without an inspiration to heal their wounds, that they would raise children who would be millennials. And I had children late. So I'm a Gen Xer, but I have a Gen Zer and a Gen Alpha and I am raising them with so much more awareness than if I was 25 years old, being in my 40s and having gone through my own healing and still it's hard. I do get concerned about the way that the internet has moved into the lives of really young people and the way that you brought that up of it affecting them without them really having the ability to understand how to deal with it is something really poignant and something to be watchful. If you happen to be listening and you're a parent of a Gen Zer, gen Alpha, to be aware of that, how do you help millennials and Gen Zers? I guess everyone is individual in how you help people, but in those challenges that you're seeing, are you finding that certain types of therapies are more helpful for certain generations?

Jayden Aubryn: 33:16

This is a very broad statement because, yeah, this is individual, but I do find that oftentimes younger generations are more open to doing weird things in therapy. It's so much easier for me to get a 20 year old to just shimmy and shake around in therapy than it is my 60 year olds and not that they won't do it, but overall, I think younger folks can sometimes have just a bit more openness to the things that they're going to try. But regardless, I think the main thing I like to focus on is building a relationship with your body. I think that the most important relationship and secure attachment you can have is with yourself, which I think I had my whole solo poly phase. Oh, I don't like that. I said phase. It was bright for me in the moment.

Jayden Aubryn: 34:07

My life has shifted, some of my priorities have shifted.

Jayden Aubryn: 34:10

It was a great time, loved it, but yeah, in that I am able to connect with others so much better because I know how to connect with myself and if I can understand that sometimes my body tells me hard things but I need to hear it and sometimes my body is just on one and being super ridiculous and I'm sobbing over a bag of hot Cheetos and we just need to get through it.

Jayden Aubryn: 34:33

I can understand that sometimes my friends also have those moments, and it's not that they hate me, it's not that our friendship needs to end or anything like that. It's just there are waves and things, and I think that really connecting to yourself underlies all healing, and so what I really work with with my clients is how do you connect to yourself? And so, generationally, I speak to a lot of the narratives that we were exposed to. I do think that there are some different narratives, with millennials versus Gen X versus Gen Z, and so I try to be aware of that and help others be aware of what were the societal narratives at the time and how they were maybe harmful and or no longer useful and work with them or checking in with their body to then create a new narrative.

Carrie Jeroslow: 35:23

I really appreciate what you're saying and I bet that you get a lot more out of your therapy work with clients looking at the differences of the generations because, you're right, there are different narratives that a 60 year old would have than a 20 year old, very different narratives, and I think anyone who's out there listening to think about what generation you fall in and what the narratives are because we always say that it's not a one size fits all for therapy or really anything in life and I say that in relationships there is no one size fits all and that's why when someone starts to enter the world of relationship diversity and doing their educational part of their exploration, to know that we all come into relationships differently, with different programs, different beliefs, and that is generational, yes, but also familial and cultural.

Carrie Jeroslow: 36:28

It has all of this programming to really commit to looking at the programs and questioning and getting information and even just awareness, will help you be much more successful in your exploration, whatever the end experience that is gonna be and there is no end, I think, until you're dead Having that with education, and this is again why I love what you talk about about making informed decision, moving away from default living and into intentional living. And so if someone is out there listening and they're like, okay, yes, that makes a lot of sense, but I have no clue how to start. I'm realizing, yes, I've been living in my relationship from a default mentality and I've just been doing it because that's just what I do. But now I wanna be more intentional. But how do I start? Jaden, what would you say is the first step that someone can do to start moving into more intentional living?

Jayden Aubryn: 37:32

I would say the first step is to understand and write down your values, and there are tons of values exercises online. You can just Google values exercise and they'll give you 100, 200, 300 words of all quote unquote positive values. They're all like values that we can get it behind. But what are your top 10 out of those? What are your top five or your top three? And doing that exercise with clients also set time limits. You need to figure out your top 10 and, depending on the client, like five to seven minutes or else you can start overthinking it.

Jayden Aubryn: 38:10

One of the idea is to allow your emotions to help you decide. So what is your like? I gotta figure it out right now. That's probably what your values are. And once you figure out your values, then you can ask well, what in my life is more helpful or more harmful to moving towards my values? Right Cause there's nothing you should or should not do. If your value is freedom and flexibility and you're in a monogamous relationship with four kids and you can't afford to ever travel, that's incongruent, not saying just leave your children, but you might want to consider how you can add a little bit more freedom and flexibility into your life, how you can travel more, how you can have some spontaneity. What would that look like for you?

Carrie Jeroslow: 38:57

It's not an all or nothing thing. I think that a lot of people just wanna be like, oh my God, I'm completely living inauthentically and now I have to just move into this place where I'm totally free. But you're right, there are these baby steps that can lead you to it, even if it's just having an afternoon where you go for a walk or go for a hike or something, to feel that little sense of breathing in fresh air and feeling that sense of freedom, that there are baby steps that can be taken. But I love that exercise. So make a list of your values, your top 10 values, then narrow it down to your top five and possibly your top three, and then asking yourself in your life what's helpful and what's harmful based on these values. Is that right?

Jayden Aubryn: 39:51

That's correct. And then just one quick word of caution with growth. Sometimes, when people will be like, oh my God, I am living inauthentically life, let me change everything, or they change one thing, they're like that feels amazing, I need to do it all, and they try to move too fast. And this is very akin to being like you know what I want to be able to bench press 300 pounds, so I'm going to go to the gym every day for three hours. When you do that, you're probably going to injure yourself.

Jayden Aubryn: 40:20

You're going to burn yourself out and likely create negative experiences that are going to disincentivize you from doing more of this work going forward. It can be really exciting. There's definitely some dopamine rushes that come with healing. It can be really frustrating when you aren't moving as fast as you want. I had a client recently describe it as, on this journey, I feel like I'm in the flyover states, where everything looks the same. I know I'm moving, but like wow, it's a lot of corn. Understand intellectually what you're doing. Make a plan, program your workout, your mental health workout. Stick to it so that you don't injure yourself and so that you can go through the ebbs and flows of oh my God, this is great and oh my God, this is terrible, and I don't want to do this anymore because burning out doesn't help anyone.

Carrie Jeroslow: 41:11

That is a powerful analogy about working out and through my own nonmonogamous journey, I will cheer what you just said and I think it takes a level of patience and resiliency and also vision, knowing really where you're going or the general direction of what you're wanting, but allowing it to unfold in the healthiest way possible. That doesn't mean that every single moment is going to feel healthy. You're breaking down a lot of really old programming and it just takes time for that to happen. And so, jaden, if someone is feeling really inspired by your methodologies, how could someone reach out to you and do you work with people outside of your state?

Jayden Aubryn: 42:09

So if you're an organization and you want me to work with your organization or give a training, then I can do that nationally. Otherwise, yeah, therapy, I am limited to Washington state at this time, but I am going to be starting a Patreon soon where there's a lot of these types of concepts and walking you through how to use certain skills and practical applications, and plan is to launch it in April. So that'll be coming up and also my Instagram has a lot of these things as well. I try to make the information as accessible as possible.

Carrie Jeroslow: 42:45

And so we will link your website and your Instagram page. And please keep in touch with Jaden, because they are going to be bringing it with this Patreon. I can just feel it and that would be really helpful. And a lot of times, patreon I don't know what your pay structure is, but a lot of times Patreon has levels and people who maybe can't afford therapy can afford to support you in Patreon and then also get your wisdom that way. So, jaden, anything you'd like to leave us with that we've missed that. You really want everyone to hear and know about.

Jayden Aubryn: 43:24

I would just say that if you're embarking on this journey, it's going to be so uncomfortable, and discomfort has the potential to destroy, but it also has the potential to create. It has the potential to create the most authentic life, a life that you didn't know that could possibly exist. I'm an Aries fire sign, so I'm like fire creation or destruction. How am I channeling it?

Jayden Aubryn: 43:52

And that's just another moment of intention when you get to these crossroads. It's not about being overly optimistic. It's not about ignoring the harm that's being caused. It's about using the discomfort, using the fire, and shaping it and guiding it so that it is as creative as possible and as minimally destructive as possible.

Carrie Jeroslow: 44:15

Beautiful imagery to end on. I love that because you're right. The discomfort I think keeps a lot of people from really living authentically, because when you're breaking down the way you've been living, if it hasn't been authentic and aligned, it does feel really crappy a lot of times and it is destructive. But I love this idea of how did you say it? Forming the fire to. How did you say it? Because that was so beautiful.

Jayden Aubryn: 44:47

It was guiding it.

Carrie Jeroslow: 44:48

Guiding it, yes, guiding the fire so that it has more creative power than destructive power, Thank you. And there is going to be a level of destruction there just is. When we're dismantling anything that is ingrained within us, there is destruction, and so I think also, you're right. So I think also, knowing that kind of prepares people for oh, this is what they were talking about. Okay, I'm not going to think that I'm the only one going through this and it's the worst thing, but I'm going to maybe reach out to Jaden on Jaden's Patreon and get some wisdom and some help, or maybe even just go on to Jaden's Instagram and get some inspiration. Really seek those out, listen to the podcast, listen to relationship diversity podcast and get inspiration, because it is just a part of it. So, jaden, thank you so much for doing your work in the world and for spending this last hour with us. Everyone, please go connect with Jaden.

Jayden Aubryn: 45:54

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.

Carrie Jeroslow: 45:57

Thanks so much for listening to the relationship diversity podcast. Want to learn more about relationship diversity? I've got a free guide I'd love to send you. Go to wwwrelationshipdiversitypodcastcom to get your sent right to you. If you liked what you heard, please subscribe to the podcast. You being here and participating in the conversation about relationship diversity is what helps us create a space of inclusivity and acceptance together. The more comfortable and normal it is to acknowledge the vast and varied relating we all do, the faster we'll shift to a paradigm of conscious, intentional and diverse relationships. New episodes are released every Thursday. Stay connected with me through my YouTube channel where I'll give you even more free resources and information, all about relationship diversity. I'm super excited to go deeper into YouTube because I'll be able to connect and have conversations directly with you. You'll find the link in the show notes. Stay curious.

Carrie Jeroslow: 47:05

Every relationship is as unique as you are. Are you wondering why you never seem to find lasting fulfillment in your relationships? Or do you create the same kinds of relationship experiences over and over again? Can you never seem to find even one person who you want to explore a relationship with? Have you just given up hope all together? If this sounds like you, my recent book why Do they Always Break Up With Me? Is the perfect place to start. The foundation of any relationship, whether intimate or not, is the relationship we have with ourselves. In the book, I lead you through eight clear steps to start or continue your self-exploration journey. You'll learn about the importance of self-acceptance, gratitude, belief shifting and forgiveness, and given exercises to experience these life-changing concepts. This is the process I use to shift my relationships from continual heartbreak to what they are now fulfilling, soul-nourishing, compassionate and loving. It is possible for you. This book can set you on a path to get there, currently available through Amazon or through the link in the show notes.