The Impact of Boundaries and Selfishness on Intimate Love ~ Conversations with Naketa Ren Thigpen

Episode 055:
Conversations with Naketa Ren Thigpen about Boundaries and Intentional Selfishness

What if you could transform your relationships through the power of healthy boundaries and intentional selfishness? Naketa Ren Thigpen, a licensed clinical social worker, trauma specialist, sexologist, and relationship expert, joins me to reveal the profound impact these concepts can have on our intimate connections.

In our thought-provoking conversation, we explore the significance of unlearning and learning in relationships, and how Naketa's has used selfishness to heal generational wounding.  As we discuss radical self-responsibility, Naketa shares her insights on the importance of communication, creative play, and tapping into our intuition to strengthen our intimate bonds.

By embracing intentional selfishness and setting healthy boundaries, we can create an empowered and safe space for ourselves and our partners. Tune in to learn how these essential practices can lead to deeper fulfillment and connection in all aspects of our relationships. Get ready to experience transformative growth in your life with the guidance of Naketa Ren Thigpen.

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Transcript

Carrie Jeroslow: 0:03

Welcome to the Relationship Diversity Podcast, where we celebrate, question and explore all aspects of relationship structure diversity, from solaramary to monogamy to polyamory and everything in between, because every relationship is as unique as you are. We'll bust through societal programming to break open and dissect everything we thought we knew about relationships, to ask the challenging but transformational questions who am I and what do I really want in my relationships? I'm your guide, Ca Jarislow. Bestselling author, speaker, intuitive and coach. Join me as we reimagine all that our most intimate relationships can become. Today's episode is part of our Conversation Series. I'm just one voice in this relationship diversity movement and it's important to bring more unique perspectives into the conversation.

Carrie Jeroslow: 1:02

Today I'll be talking with Naketa e , Renthigpen, all about creating healthy boundaries and how being intentionally selfish can amplify relationship intimacy. But first a little about her. Nikita Renthigpen is on a mission to build stronger families that leave LEAVE a new multi-generational imprints, witnessed from the ripples of love, empathy, adventure, victory and edification they create from their wholeness. Formerly trained as a licensed clinical n social worker, nikita architected her core professional skillset as a psychotherapist, trauma specialist, sexology and relationship expert, with strategically infused tenets of metaphysics and coaching to set a new bar, creating ripples inside the personal development industry and utilising her distinct experiential, intuitive and highly n energetic style, nikita is the host of the Balance Boldly podcast and international bestselling author of the book Selfish Permission to Pause, live, love and Laugh Your Way to Joy. A highly sought after transformative empowerment speaker and CEO of Thigpro Balance and Relationship Management Institute. This brilliant beauty has revolutionized how to heal traumas while balancing work, life and love. Let's get into the conversation.

Carrie Jeroslow: 2:44

Hello everyone, and welcome to this episode of Relationship Diversity podcast. I've got an amazing guest for you. Today. We are talking with Naketa Ren Thigpen and, oh my gosh, she's going to drop some massive wisdom on all of us today, all about boundaries in relationships and selfishness and how that can be intentionally selfishness. Being intentionally selfish will help us to amplify our relationship intimacy And if you haven't heard any of my podcast episodes, you will know that I am in big alignment with this topic, because when you don't know yourself, you cannot know what you want in relationship, and not only will you not know, you will not be able to communicate it to very important things when breathing into a fulfilling relationship. So with that, welcome Nikita. Thank you so much for being here.

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 3:55

I am honored. Thank you for holding the space.

Carrie Jeroslow: 3:58

Yay, well, let's start out with telling people a little bit about yourself, and I like to weave your personal story into how this became a passion for you to talk about this subject, because there's always a connection.

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 4:15

Always There's zero confusion about anything that you just said, because you're a thousand percent correct spiritually, mentally and physically. So all of those things aligned for me at a very young age, just not understanding what boundaries were, not having them as what I like to see, as kind of expansive gatekeepers over the things that are really important to you. I try not to use security guards because people start to feel restrictive when you think of boundaries that way And I like to see them as luscious and expansive, creating the space, a protective space for me to stay true to who I am. So when I'm doing anything around relationships and boundaries or intimacy and all of the things in between, i have to come back to what matters most to me and my mission to build stronger families and create what I call these new multi-generational imprints, which is just a really fun way of saying breaking generational curses Yeah, and I know you rock with me there Oh, yeah, the importance of doing it, but to keep the language, i guess, softer and more open for people who may not be as grounded in metaphysical realities and other dimensions or just spirituality.

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 5:28

In the way that I see it, i call them the new multi-generational imprints that you get to create from your self-actualized wholeness, which selfishly started with me doing it first. So a little background. I know you gave a full intro earlier but, for context, I've been a licensed clinical social worker and trauma specialist for over 25 years Before I became an entrepreneur. Almost well actually May 17th, depending on when this recording airs of 2023, we hit 12 years in business.

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 6:00

Wow, we're like almost allowed to be rebellious teenagers in business. I love that, yeah, which is where we are, and so I took all that acumen along with being a sexologist and relationship expert, all these beautiful tools, and although I don't serve as a psychotherapist anymore, i weave those tools along with my intuition, very similar to you, and how I show up for the people that I want to play with, the most Right, like we're not supposed to play with everyone. We have our sandboxes for where we want to go, and I choose to go with people who are really honoring that. They are good. They're good right where they are right by themselves, but they want to be better than good. They want to do a little bit more and amplify intimacy. For me, yes, it includes sex, but it is not the only way to be intimate, right?

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 6:50

Yes, especially in our romantic relationships Exactly Right, and part of that intimacy includes looking at what do you really want for yourself, and in order to be honest with that, you have to look at what you're not making space for that allows you to do what you want. So that might mean looking at how you feel yourself. Are you exercising so you can have physical energy to throw your legs back to the sky when you're being loved on, or just to show up fully if you are parents or grandparents or a caregiver of elderly parents or whatever it is in your world? we need to make sure we have those boundaries. So I had to do it first. I did not grow up with strong models. I came from a very dysfunctional family, with sexual abuse, domestic partner violence, like all the different things that could potentially go wrong in the unhealthiest version of relationships in every direction Parents, siblings, you name it. I was experiencing it And I just wanted to do different, which is why I kind of went down this very open path of creating these sacred spaces for people.

Carrie Jeroslow: 7:58

Wow, i love that. So I feel like this moment could be really helpful for people. What was the moment? if you remember that you went from, this is my past and I am choosing to not be shaped from my past and be defined by my past and pave another way. What was that moment like? Because I hear a lot of people who are like well, i've just had this wounding and I have no clue how to get out of it and to redefine who I am.

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 8:32

Yeah, yeah, i had multiple moments. I would love to say, for ease and simplicity, that it was just this thing that happened to me one night, in the middle of the night, and I woke up just completely 180. I'm the kid that touches the fire multiple times. Right, i needed to have a lived experience that would allow for me to both fill the burn and have some control over when I would pull back and go back in. So my first experience with something needs to be different.

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 9:07

I was nine years old and I had just told my grandparents, who my mother and I were living with, that she was on drugs. I found her little kitten Kaboodle of paraphernalia She was doing crack cocaine at the time, amongst many other things, but that was the Kaboodle that I found And so scared. But to save her, to help her, i went to my grandparents who were also very unhealthy people, but they were healthier from that regards and I went and said hey, she needs help. This is what I found in the closet. And, of course, when she walked in the door from her second or third job that day because that was definitely something I got from my mama is I know how to hustle right, like I knew how to hold down a job. They accosted her and basically said you need to go on treatment. If you don't go on treatment, you can't stay here. And I was you know little kids and at the top of the steps peaking down, scared that she was going to get in, like it was a physically violent house as well. So I didn't really know what was going to happen, but I knew it had to be better than whatever it was she was doing. And she stood there and said well, i'm not going. And he said well, if you don't go, you can't take your daughter. And they called me by my childhood nickname. She looked me right in the face as I was sitting at the top of the stairs and said keep her.

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 10:23

And that had so many layers to it. For me It was the space of abandonment. Of course, i didn't have the language at the time, at nine, but that was this gut feeling of being disconnected from the one person that I had the closest physical connection to. But there was also a sense of betrayal because she was leaving me with one of the people. My grandmother was doing her best, but she was also unhealthy and in a cycle of violence. Her husband, my step-grandfather was a person who was not safe for me, who was also not safe for her, and she knew that And she still said keep her.

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 11:04

So there was these multiple layers of things, body emotions, that were coming up that, of course, i couldn't express at the time And when that happened, i didn't understand it then, but I literally heard in my body you have to be 75% different. I didn't understand the context, i didn't understand why not 100, any of that, but that stayed with me as a deep imprint that would carry on with me through all of my rebelliousness, through all of my challenges, right Through all of the lovers that I would take as a young child, like all of the things that I would do. It stayed with me. Whatever you do and whatever you don't do, you better be 75% different, wow.

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 11:44

So that was a huge, a huge plant, if you will, for me.

Carrie Jeroslow: 11:49

Definitely some massive programming. That probably saved you.

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 11:54

Absolutely, wow, absolutely. You use a word that I'm careful with save right, because we all have our own programming around it, but I use it too, and the first time that being selfish saved me I was 15. So we're talking some years later. My mother and I had tried and tried and tried to repair our relationship in different ways. And three years prior, when I was 12, she was living in a shelter We had done all kinds of. She had had me in crack houses and in alleyways and had me homeless on the street with her. All these different things that she was going through this struggle, control with my grandparents to take care of My parents, to take me, keep me, leave me all these things. But once she had my brother, i felt I couldn't leave her. As dangerous as it was, as hard as it was, i knew that I had to have some kind of anchor And I tried really hard for three years, from 12 to 15.

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 12:53

By the time I hit 15, i'm coming into my body a little bit. I'm not the skinny little stick anymore. I got a little booty. I got an A cup, a little something happening. And people are looking at me different. Men and women are looking at me different. My mother is looking at me different.

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 13:10

So she decides in her sickness that I'm a commodity. And instead of just stealing from me stealing my tokens so she can trade things, stealing my clothes so she can trade things, stealing my time so I could raise her son She tried to sell me multiple times. Wow, multiple, multiple times. And there was only so many times I could escape on the roof or run away and come back at four in the morning when I knew she would be higher her mind. There was only too many times I could do that with a toddler because my brother was barely three years old. So I finally called my grandmother My step-grandfather had deceased a few years prior and said I need to come back home, i can't take it anymore. We need to come back home. And she said, ok, but I'm not taking your brother, I'm not raising another child, i'm done with that, i'm over it. And all fairness. My grandmother had had multiple kids, who had multiple kids, who and she had, you know, really sacrificed a lot of whatever it was that she would have wanted to be able to do if her kids kids didn't keep leaving their kids with her like that kind of multi-generational hurt and harm and lack of boundaries in real talk.

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 14:19

So I understood, even though I couldn't relate to it, and I knew in that moment I had a choice. I could either say, ok, screw you, I'm going to stay here, i'll figure it out and protect me and him some kind of way, or I'm going to choose myself, because I knew that if I stay there I was going to be dead or underneath the jail. That was my life. There were no other options for me because I was going out protecting myself. I'm from Philadelphia.

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 14:44

Yeah, i've always been a fighter. I was going to continue to fight, but that wasn't the life that I wanted. I didn't want to be in this cycle of constantly fighting and protecting, and fighting and protecting. There's no room for thriving in that kind of cycle. It's only survival. So that was my first time. It was a very hard decision to make, one that wait on me for so many years. I was able to take custody of my brother by the time he was 13. We were still a young family. My husband and I were married. I had my master's degree by that time. We still you're a clinician, you're not making that much money.

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 15:20

It was still very hard. It wasn't like we were living it up, but I was in a much more stable position mentally, physically, financially than I was at 15 years old, with three jobs in school and cheerleading and tracking and all the things. So there were multiple to answer your question. there were these multiple points of do different or you're going to get swept into this expectation of what your life is supposed to be based on your environment.

Carrie Jeroslow: 15:48

I can only imagine, barely imagine, what it must have been like in that moment of like I either stay and take care of my brother or I am going to fight for myself and who I am, and the chances of living a different life. Like that's weighty. Wow, then, that you were able to come back into it and bring him into your family, which was much more stable. Wow. How did you talk about healing and changing these generational patterns? And so, with you going into your marriage and your intimate relationship, yeah, there's a lot of unlearning and learning that needs to happen in order to have a fulfilling relationship with your husband. Can you touch I'm sure that it was not just one thing. I'm sure it was probably still. You know, i know I'm in relationship for 17 years, so I know I'm continually learning things that, oh right, that happened in my childhood. I got to look at that. But can you take us through a little bit of what that unlearning process and then learning process was in your marriage?

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 17:12

Yeah, that was a realist mirror that I could have was the one with my. I call him my soul's half and my forever lover, and the two aren't necessarily always the same, but he just happens to be both for me As my soul's half. There was literally nothing that I could do good or not so good where he wasn't a mirror for me in that. And that included my filly attitude, you know right, my rebelliousness that at that time could sometimes borderline reckless, right? You know all of that protective. I need to fight, fight, fight energy. I brought that into our relationship. A little bit of context there is we were friends since 13 and we didn't start dating till 17. Once we start dating, we pretty much held on for life. So at this point we're 29 years in, but we were, you know, definitely struggling, to say the least.

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 18:08

We literally grew up to with each other and to each other truly, And when I came into it, my husband is very alpha, so I say this with love for anyone listening to this He's very secure in who he is. He communicates when he needs to. He's not a very verbal person in terms of like. We just want to talk it out. Where I'm a processor, Like, I'm like I need to give you all the context in my head. You know, even you hear me when I'm answering your questions. I'm like OK, let me get a context and then bring you forward. Yeah, he's very much like here it is. Now, if you want context, you'll have to ask me to back up in it.

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 18:46

So our communication styles were different. He was very direct and as was I, but only when I felt like I was threatened. He's direct, period, That's just who he is And I was attracted to that because there was no Mess to untangle to get to his truth that he was just, he would just give it to you, which is also not what I was used to. I'm used to like having to read people and figure out what their truest intentions were, where he's just like no, my intention is for us to have sex.

Carrie Jeroslow: 19:17

My intention is right, It is very there's a comfort in that, because you're like I don't got to, i don't have to guess. I know you're telling me, yeah, it was sexy.

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 19:27

It was something so appealing about it being so different. It was, in fact, the seventy five percent different that I really wanted. But I didn't know how to handle Right. And there's always that we ask for these different type of people we want to attract in our lives. Then we attract the people and we push them away because we don't know how to handle them. And so I did that so much in our early years. There was this push and pull I want you close to me, but no, get away. I need my freedom. No, come close to me, but no, you're too much in my proximity, i need space. Right.

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 19:59

I kept doing that with him energetically, physically, sometimes verbally. He was the sweetest, especially when we were younger. He was so sweet and so caring And, i dare say, way more nurturing than I was. And although he was very protective as an alpha male, my protective level was was probably on a 20 out of 10. And that's because that's what I was used to. I was used to protecting my siblings. I'm used to protecting my cousins, like I'm used to protecting everyone around me as a way to protect myself, but not necessarily directly protecting myself. In that way, i would jump in front of you to take the punch, which is what I mean by that, and that was hard for him because that's not the context that he grew up in.

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 20:41

His father is an architect. His mother is a stay at home mom who did all the things that we hate that mothers do. She cooked five course breakfast, lunch and dinner, right. She listened to her kids, she talked to them about their feelings. I was like that you know that conscious parenting She was already doing it And although his home wasn't perfect, she really gave another level of balance to his experience that I had no context of outside of when I visited their home And I could feel that warmth and that softness.

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 21:15

But visiting and living in it is two different things that the scripts that we create as adults are very different when you're just exposed to it versus infused in it, as he was. So he would do things like have. I was always a water and a tea drinker And he would have them ready for me when I came home from work. If he happened to be home earlier than me, and me and my hardness would be like I just want some time to sleep. Let me have my power nap before you talk to me. You know, i was just such a jerk on so many levels And part of it the jerkiness was because of the trauma, right Like the jerkiness, because I didn't understand that these things had to be dealt with. I couldn't continue to have this platinum chain, this award for being a compartmentalizer that I had been awarded for, because I was always an academic.

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 22:09

I was always getting accomplishments. I was always getting these proverbial validation paths on the back from being really brilliant, but I was just collecting all these tools and being skilled at how to use them for other people.

Carrie Jeroslow: 22:23

Right, right.

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 22:24

So a lot of that. For us it really came to a halt. My son was. He was born in 96, so I'm going to say he was probably two, three years old, so right around 99, 2000,.

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 22:39

My husband was starting to change, like his personality was changing. For me He was starting to become more withdrawn and the signs of depression and things that were very evident to me clinically. But, as the wife in you know, in the relationship you just like, oh, he's just being a jerk, right, you just kind of want to dismiss it when you're so up close to it because you don't want to take responsibility for anything that you might be adding to. But it was starting to change really rapidly And so we started to have a different level of conversations, like, ok, what is happening here? And he was very honest I feel rejected by you. Anyone who'd known me would have never said anything about rejection because I was very much the come in, let me save you, right. Like, let me protect you, let me So to have him, have this very different version of me and him be the closest human to me, emotionally, physically, in all the ways was a mirror.

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 23:38

Again, it was okay, there's something not in alignment. The world is getting this other version of you. You're staying over, doing overtime to help people grieve their losses, their trauma. They're helping them survive in their circumstances because of who you are as a clinician. But your lover, the person you sleep with every single day, is saying that they don't feel connected to you, they don't feel heard and appreciated or validated or edified or desired. They don't feel seen by you.

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 24:09

Something right, something is wrong with this picture, nikita. So what have you want to do? Are you going to turn it around and say, well, is your fault, something's wrong with you, which would have been my old school response? Yeah, and I was experiencing a spiritual change and there was something going on with me that I couldn't quite explain the time, but I knew it was calling forth for me to remember my promise to myself to be 75% different, Like it. All kind of came back to that And so I had to look at how I could be different, and that took me going to lots of years of therapy.

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 24:44

Right, and I was very honest with okay, you can't just be the smartest person in the room. That's not serving you. What other room do you need to be in? Oh, you need to be with someone who is more brilliant than you in this area. Guess what, nikita? there are lots of other people who can support you. You don't always have to be the supporter, you don't always have to be the protector. You know, some of those things by themselves carry were just like mind-blowing, like logically, we know it.

Carrie Jeroslow: 25:12

But when it's turned towards you and you really have to shut it up and listen and receive, Right, it's humbling, it's really humbling, and I talk about radical self-responsibility and you know it's I go through it still to this day and it's a hard pill to swallow. But it also is the one that will make the most shifts, i think, in relationship to others and relationship to self. So, wow, thank you for being so vulnerable about that, and I think that that will hit home with a lot of people out there. So I want to just continue because I don't feel it is shifting, because there's something about you know the story that, the stories that you talk about, your experience and where boundaries come in, and setting boundaries, because there can be healthy boundaries And then there can be like unhealthy, in the way that it's protecting me and keeping me in a stuck place. Can you talk about the difference of the two?

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 26:29

Absolutely, and I am so honored one by you holding the space, but also by you being very clear about the difference in that, because a lot of people just see boundaries as something that's healthy and there's never a wrong boundary And I don't mean to make people wrong in having a boundary that might be too restrictive, but if you feel like it's not allowing you to experience joy or life or having an actual lived experience that's fulfilling to you and enriching, then your boundary might be literally choking and suffocating your dreams from you. So that's one of the ways that I look at it. Your boundaries should allow you to do literally more of what you want. So I have a formula for balance that includes boundaries, if you don't mind.

Carrie Jeroslow: 27:14

Yes, I'd love to hear Yeah.

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 27:16

I am a nerd, So guys just rock with me Unite nerds.

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 27:23

Nerd life. So the formula is letters and it's T like Tom over B like boy. So think of it as a fraction T over B. The T is admitting the truth of what you really want, not what you need. Most of us say oh, you know, i need a bigger house, i need more rooms for my parents to come stay with us. I need this, i need that Like we get stuck in the needs which is really anchored to the expectations of other people Yes, and sometimes the expectations of our younger selves.

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 27:51

Now younger could be six months ago, like it doesn't have to be just the 20 plus year old version of yourself or younger than that, depending on who you are listening to this show right now. But if your six month, six month ago self said I need to meet my soul mates you know, keeping it relationship based And if I don't meet them in the next six months, then it's going to be impossible for me to create a life filled with abundance and laughter and maybe even little people, right, like whatever it is that you choose to have. And then, for whatever reason, you're six months forward and you don't feel like you have any valuable or valid prospects. There's a part of you that is very unkind to you. Now You start to shame yourself, you start to feel like you're not worthy. You go into this spiral, rabbit hole that we understand metaphysically is actually pulling you further away from the very thing that you want to attract, because now you're literally pushing what is truly there for you away by saying I'm not ready. In your own way, whatever language you might be using, subconsciously, subconsciously or consciously, you're pushing it away. If you are focused on that, instead of saying you know, I want this wonderful human to laugh with me to maybe dance with me, to go to funny concerts with me, where we don't care who's looking when we jump around, right, like if you just kind of focus on that, like this is what I want, this is what I get out of it, and your energy starts to fall up to the moment, like you can physically see it, you can smell them, you can taste them, the energy, the excitement in your body, that's what you want. Okay, so let's create some boundaries around it. So now you can get that right. And I'm picking on love, but we can apply that to every year, your work life, all of it. So just staying with the love, kind of example.

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 29:47

Okay, boundary one how am I feeling myself? That is very important. It's going to be hard for me to go dance at any of my concerts if I feel like my hip is didn't didn't in my knee not working, my elbow hurt, if I'm not fueling myself with good energy, good exercise, good foods, energetic foods, high vibrational foods that allow me to stay as healthy as I'm allowed to be in this hour, regardless of genetics or whatever else might be happening. Because we also don't want to blame ourselves for things that we were born with, right Like so, just being mindful to be the healthiest expression of yourself in that hour. What are you doing to do that? Well, you need a boundary around that. What's your budget? What part of the supermarket hour you going into? Are you going to process foods? Are you going around the edges?

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 30:35

Just being honest, around that, your personal habits matter because without them, you won't be able to do all the other things. You also won't have a clear mind when you have people who are energy zappers sucking from you without your permission. Energy zappers is a whole nother area of boundaries that you need to protect, because without it, you're going to have people that are giving you false validation. And because you're exhausted, because you're overwhelmed, because you might have poor or little conflict intimacy and you're not willing to address those things, you allow people to get closer to you than they have earned. So now they have access to you. That is pulling from you. You've got the cousin who's calling you every day for the last 10 years talking about the same situation, and you feel resentful because you take the call, because you feel obligated to, and the cousin can be the ex, the man, the comrade, right, the cousin can be representative of whoever. Yes, but you do it And then you leave that conversation feeling so drained and having no energy for your private dance party. That would fuel you up and get you feeling sexy and confident and ready to attract in that forever lover or that soul's half.

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 31:51

You also need a boundary around your spiritual center, whatever that means for you. I'm a very spiritually rounded person, so I need time for my devotionals, i need time to write, i need time to talk to my higher God mind, to receive from myself. I need that time, which means I have to protect it. So I got to set my alarm a little bit earlier or make some space at the end of the night. It can't be a falling into it because I'm exhausted, because that's not fair for what I really want. My little boundary officers that are giving me that spaciousness I need to achieve what I truly want in life. They need to be taken care of, they need to be fed the time, they need to feel protected. My boundaries literally need to know that I honor them enough to make them non-negotiable.

Carrie Jeroslow: 32:39

Yeah, i love that And, like you said in the beginning, which really stuck with me is this is a very expansive way to look at creating this container. So the boundaries are your container to expand and become more fully who you want to be and know yourself, which is this intentional selfishness that you're talking about. And so, to move into that conversation, can you talk about how, when someone I'm going to use your words owns their right to be intentionally selfish, it helps to amplify relationship intimacy. Can you talk about that?

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 33:22

Yeah. So here I go with the context. Right, a little context. I redefine the word selfish as we know it from the Oxford and Webster dictionary as egotistical and overly self-absorbed. Self-absorption is still something you don't want to be in any way, shape or form, but in terms of the restrictiveness that comes with egotism and all that other stuff, i don't know why I can't talk today.

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 33:48

I looked at it and said, okay, what is good about having some some guards around our time or some some framing, if you will, around what we need? I needed a personal intimate gift. This was selfish myself And the only way to do that was to call back to reclaim what was mine. So when other people have access to you partially because you've allowed it, because you train people how to treat you right And vice versa If all these people are used to calling me and I answer, texting me and I stop what I'm doing and you want to call It's not a 30 minute call, it's a two hour call. This is what they're used to And I feel resented from it Then that's on me to look at. Well, how can I reclaim my time So intentionally selfish?

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 34:34

the new definition is a personal intimate gift to create your joy, your way, beautiful, your spaciousness. Thank you, you know what I mean. Yes, in order to do that. That means saying no a little bit more often and very deliberately. So, no, i'm not able to come to this fifth wedding. I love you. There's no judgment.

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 34:55

I went to the other four. Here's my gift to you. Where's your registry? We will aligned in a couple more months to have lunch when it makes sense for our schedule, but I'm not traveling 12 hours to do this because you feel that, because we went to college together 25 years ago, that I am obligated to do this, when it's actually pulling me away from the truth of I need this space to honor my body, to do myself forgiveness, work, to see my therapist, to sit with my coach, to be with my advisor, to have beautiful tea conversations, whatever it is that I want with my time, because it fuels me and prepares me to attract my forever lover.

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 35:34

And that means I have to say no to that thing that I would normally feel so obligated to do. I would normally feel obligated to allow someone that we just had a great 20 minute conversation and towards the last 10. That's when they actually open up, and now it's another hour conversation, professionally or personally. That's not in alignment with me being intentionally selfish, so that I don't become resentful. So when you're intentional, it's not to be self absorbed is not to make people feel bad about having time with you, but it is seeing yourself as a gift. You know what my time is valuable. This time that we're having right now. This is precious time to have a beautiful conversation.

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 36:21

But if it went on for four hours, you and I would both be like girl, let's get to the point, you know what I mean and we would also feel drained and bothered by it, even if we didn't say it for whatever reason, because we felt like, oh, this is such a good conversation, we're dropping some value. But when you end, what did you not do in that? that additional three hours, your lovers waiting for you. Maybe you are waiting for you because you wanted to nap or to paint or to dance or to play or just sit and wiggle your toes. I don't care, my business, it's what, it's your time. But I don't have the right to push myself on to you and you have every right to reclaim that space and say I'm being intentionally selfish. Nikita, this was a phenomenal conversation.

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 37:07

We'll have to another time right, you have a right, and we have to practice building that muscle by being more intentionally selfish, so we don't present the very people that we're living for.

Carrie Jeroslow: 37:20

Yeah, and I love what you just said, which is practice to strengthen the muscle, because it is a practice And I so I started my sacred self care.

Carrie Jeroslow: 37:35

That's what I call it. I do yoga every single day and started it in 2017. Every single day, it is a non negotiable. It's the way I process all the things that go on in my life, and whether it's five minutes, 10 minutes or an hour it's very rarely an hour, but that is a non-negotiable and it helps me be a better person in my relationships, because I feel like I'm giving myself something that I need, and so I'll ask you when someone so I wanna, just before I go into that question, i wanna say to anyone out there who's listening is like I don't know how I can even do that and how to create the space. It is a practice. So you can't go into the gym and lift 100 pounds the first time you go in. You practice, you build the muscle, you build the muscle of self-care and sacred selfishness, intentional selfishness, and so how does that amplify relationship intimacy with, let's say, a lover?

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 38:39

Yes, all of my favorite question. So this is not for the little people. If you have, if you're playing this in a car, right?

Carrie Jeroslow: 38:48

Pause it and come back to it later.

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 38:50

Absolutely So. When you most of us as humans we have grown up with different scripts around physical intimacy, we were either told it's wrong, you don't do it until right, and some people never get the until. It's just wrong, you don't do it. Some people get it with these specific parameters until you're 18, or until you're wearing a band around your finger or someone has signed a piece of paper. It's always an until for most people. That doesn't allow you to really learn what do you want, in that You just fall into the. Until You had sex, you were like this is what it is okay. Whatever that person did to you or allowed you to do with them, this is what you feel it is. Or you might be corrupted by pornography and think that that's real life. When it is so, not. Yes, yes And all the levels and everything in between.

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 39:43

But when you're intentionally selfish, you get to say hold on. What do I really like? Huh, all these years I've been letting my person kiss on my neck. It actually kind of creeps me out. I really don't like the way that feels. Feels like a dog licking me or something like that. And there's nothing sexy. Shouldn't I be Anything sexy about that? but I've just allowed it to happen. Maybe I actually really like below my collarbone, like in a super sweet spot. that might be weird for other people, but this is what I like When you're selfish enough to one, get to know your body and not have it done just on the timetable or judgmentlessness. If there is such a thing of the other person that you're with, then you get to really feel empowered with. Okay, babe, try here, not there.

Carrie Jeroslow: 40:34

Right to actually say it. To say it, You know it, but then actually getting it out in your mouth to your partner.

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 40:41

Yes, yes, and you get to reciprocate that energy because now, because you have spaciousness, you're not exhausted and overwhelmed and feeling so insecure because you've given yourself that time to get to know you, to do your work That was the whole point of you being selfish right To fill your own cup so you can pour from your overflow, so to speak. To be a little cheeky about it, because you can do that. Now you can say oh well, babe, what do you like? Do you like what I do this? Would you rather I do that? Because some people are not where you are. This is not a judgment of their growth, it's just an acknowledgement. They may not feel as secure as you do to ask for what they want, so a little training might be in order with your lover Do you like this? Or let me show you what I think you want, but please, part of the game is for you to say no. Or take my hand or my tongue or my face or my leg or my finger and move me Where you prefer me to be, and you can make it a game, like one of the things that I do for my new power couples when they come in is we send them a huge box of toys And, yes, some of the toys are the ones you're thinking about, but most of them are not. There's puzzles and bubbles and all kinds of things because we're teaching them different ways to communicate those really awkward things that come up especially when you've been together for a long time.

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 42:00

Yes, you make the assumption of thinking I know everything about this person, but you knew everything about this person up until that new shift that they just had And all of us have multiple. As we started this conversation. We have multiple shifts and we can pinpoint different versions of our growth. But what about the version that I had two years ago where I realized that I really don't like how you smack your food at the table? We've never addressed that version. We've just kind of placated each other to avoid making each other angry and moved past it. And what else have we placated with each other and hardened because of it?

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 42:39

Yes, well, we really want to chisel through that so we can get to the gooey, juicy part, And I mean that literally and figuratively. Yeah, we have to do something different, and part of it is letting go the conventional wisdom that selfishness is bad, using it for good, being very mindful that the purpose is, so that you can fill up, so that you can pour from your overflow. It's not just to push everyone away. That's not a good boundary officer. That's not a good way to use your selfishness. It's a very infusing process for your growth if you use your power for good.

Carrie Jeroslow: 43:19

Yeah, yeah, i love this conversation And I want to bring in one just aspect about the word intimacy, in that you can have as much, if not more, intimacy through a heart to heart conversation where you're really opening and hearing one another as you can in any kind of physical intimacy. That intimacy is emotional, mental, physical, sexual, spiritual, and that knowing yourself, just like you're saying, and creating the time, the intentional, selfish time to know who you are, will enhance all of your relationships And intimacy, even a heart to heart intimacy with a friend or family member as well. These are such important discussions And thank you for doing your work in the world and helping people. How can people find you if they want to reach out to you? How can they hear more of your message?

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 44:28

Thank you so much. I really appreciate you, i would say, because you're listening to a podcast, the best thing for you to do after you rate and review this episode is to go to the Balance Boldly podcast, that B-O-L-D-L-Y.

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 44:48

For those of you who think I talk funny because I do So, balance Boldly has been around since 2016. And I talk about all kinds of things work, life and love balance specifically for entrepreneurs that are really trying to make sure that they do business differently so they have space for their mental health and well-being, right like for that aspect. Outside of that, just go to our company parent site, which is Thigprocom T-H-I-G-P-R-Ocom. For those of you listening, it's a little play on my last name, thigpin. Nobody can say it, so they used to just call us Thigpro and it stuck. So Love it.

Carrie Jeroslow: 45:27

Love it. We're going to link all of that in the show notes. It'll all be there, so please go check out Naketa. She's got incredible wisdom And I'm so thankful. Thank you for being a part of this podcast And I hope we'll stay in touch Absolutely.

Naketa Ren Thigpen: 45:44

Thank you.

Carrie Jeroslow: 45:47

Thanks so much for listening to the Relationship Diversity podcast. Want to learn more about relationship diversity? I've got a free guide I'd love to send you. Go to wwwrelationshipdiversitypodcastcom to get your sent right to you. If you liked what you heard, please subscribe to the podcast. You being here and participating in the conversation about relationship diversity is what helps us create a space of inclusivity and acceptance together. The more comfortable and normal it is to acknowledge the vast and varied relating we all do, the faster we'll shift to a paradigm of conscious, intentional and diverse relationships. New episodes are released every Thursday. Stay connected with me through my website, carryjarrislowcom, instagram or TikTok. Stay curious.

Carrie Jeroslow: 46:43

Every relationship is as unique as you are. Are you wondering why you never seem to find lasting fulfillment in your relationships? Or do you create the same kinds of relationship experiences over and over again? Can you never seem to find even one person who you want to explore a relationship with? Have you just given up hope altogether? If this sounds like you, my recent book Why Do They Always Break Up With Me is the perfect place to start. The foundation of any relationship, whether intimate or not, is the relationship we have with ourselves. In the book, i lead you through eight clear steps to start or continue your self-exploration journey. You'll learn about the importance of self-acceptance, gratitude, belief shifting and forgiveness, and given exercises to experience these life-changing concepts. This is the process I use to shift my relationships from continual heartbreak to what they are now fulfilling, soul-nourishing, compassionate and loving. It is possible for you. This book can set you on a path to get there, currently available through Amazon or through the link in the show notes.