Episode 053: Conversations with Jess Lynn about Debunking Non-Monogamy Myths
Are you ready to debunk some of the biggest non-monogamy myths? Join me as I speak with Jess Lynn, a therapist and coach who specializes in working with non-monogamous newbies. Jess shares her journey from growing up in a conservative area to becoming a serial monogamist and eventually finding her calling as a relationship coach. Together, we tackle common misconceptions surrounding non-monogamy, including the idea that it's solely about sex and that jealousy is always bad.
Jess and I dive into the importance of open communication, trust, and respect in relationships, and how embracing non-monogamy can lead to a deeper understanding of oneself and one's partner. We discuss the complexities of jealousy in non-monogamous relationships, exploring how it can be an opportunity for growth and self-awareness. We also touch on the misconceptions that non-monogamous relationships lack commitment and tackle the various ways commitment can be expressed and experienced.
Throughout our conversation, we redefine success in relationship dynamics and discuss Jess's transformative relationship coaching program, which offers valuable insights and guidance for those new to non-monogamy. If you're interested in exploring the truth behind these myths and unlocking the potential for growth and connection in non-monogamous relationships, you won't want to miss this episode.
Please note: I am not a doctor, psychiatrist, psychologist, therapist, counselor, or social worker. I am not attempting to diagnose, treat, prevent or cure any physical, mental, or emotional issue, disease, or condition. The information provided in or through my podcast is not intended to be a substitute for the professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment provided by your own Medical Provider or Mental Health Provider. Always seek the advice of your own Medical Provider and/or Mental Health Provider regarding any questions or concerns you have about your specific circumstance.
Episode 053: Conversations with Jess Lynn about Debunking Non-Monogamy Myths
Are you ready to debunk some of the biggest non-monogamy myths? Join me as I speak with Jess Lynn, a therapist and coach who specializes in working with non-monogamous newbies. Jess shares her journey from growing up in a conservative area to becoming a serial monogamist and eventually finding her calling as a relationship coach. Together, we tackle common misconceptions surrounding non-monogamy, including the idea that it's solely about sex and that jealousy is always bad.
Jess and I dive into the importance of open communication, trust, and respect in relationships, and how embracing non-monogamy can lead to a deeper understanding of oneself and one's partner. We discuss the complexities of jealousy in non-monogamous relationships, exploring how it can be an opportunity for growth and self-awareness. We also touch on the misconceptions that non-monogamous relationships lack commitment and tackle the various ways commitment can be expressed and experienced.
Throughout our conversation, we redefine success in relationship dynamics and discuss Jess's transformative relationship coaching program, which offers valuable insights and guidance for those new to non-monogamy. If you're interested in exploring the truth behind these myths and unlocking the potential for growth and connection in non-monogamous relationships, you won't want to miss this episode.
Please note: I am not a doctor, psychiatrist, psychologist, therapist, counselor, or social worker. I am not attempting to diagnose, treat, prevent or cure any physical, mental, or emotional issue, disease, or condition. The information provided in or through my podcast is not intended to be a substitute for the professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment provided by your own Medical Provider or Mental Health Provider. Always seek the advice of your own Medical Provider and/or Mental Health Provider regarding any questions or concerns you have about your specific circumstance.
Speaker 1:
Welcome to the Relationship Diversity Podcast, where we celebrate, question and explore all aspects of relationship structure diversity, from solaramary to monogamy to polyamory and everything in between, because every relationship is as unique as you are. We'll bust through societal programming to break open and dissect everything we thought we knew about relationships, to ask the challenging but transformational questions who am I and what do I really want in my relationships? I'm your guide, Keri Jarislow. Bestselling author, speaker, intuitive and coach. Join me as we reimagine all that our most intimate relationships can become. Today's episode is part of our conversation series. I'm just one voice in this relationship diversity movement and it's important to bring more unique perspectives into the conversation.
Speaker 1:
Today I'll be talking with Jess Lin, a therapist and coach who specializes in working with non-monogamous newbies. She debunks five big myths about non-monogamy, bringing truth to what many non-monogamous people actually experience. But first a little about her. Jess is an ethical non-monogamy relationship coach and licensed therapist. After opening her previously monogamous relationship of six years, jess quickly learned just how little information there was out there from professionals on how to navigate non-monogamy. Jess is passionate about helping others to create healthy communication patterns with themselves, partners and others so that they can design and embrace their relationship dreams. Through her coaching services, she shares her knowledge and personal stories through the lens of a trained clinician, in hopes that others can reach relationship success. Let's get into the conversation.
Speaker 1:
Hello everyone and welcome to this episode of Relationship Diversity Podcast. I've got a great guest today and I'm super excited about this topic. I've got Jess Lin, who is a non-monogamous coach and therapist, and we are going to debunk all of these perceptions that are out there about the non-monogamous lifestyle. I'm very excited about this because I think it's so important to learn about what other people go through. We make all these judgments, no matter who we are. We make judgments about experiences we don't have. We kind of go in our mind and make up these stories and a lot of times those stories have no truth to them. They're just making it up from our perceptions, from our past, using our filters. This conversation is so exciting because we're coming for them. Welcome, jess, to the podcast. Thank you so much for being here.
Speaker 2:
Yes, thank you so much. I really appreciate it. I love your intro. You're so spot on. We're coming for it.
Speaker 1:
Yes, yes. The way I love to start these conversations is to find out a little bit about your story who you are, where you've come from and how you got to coaching specifically non-monogamous, ethical non-monogamous people.
Speaker 2:
Yes, well, it's been a journey, that's for sure, as all good stories are. I grew up in the Poconos in Pennsylvania in a fairly conservative area. My parents, especially my mom, was always very open about sex and relationships and all that stuff. There was no weird well, actually weird to me, but weird like you can't have a boyfriend or things like this. Though it was a conservative area and it was raised in the Catholic Church. It was never like you have to say sex until marriage or anything like that. My mom was very open about everything, which I really appreciate it, especially looking back now.
Speaker 2:
Yes, so I just didn't have any of those. A lot of people who sometimes end up in the community I'm in, a lot of people, do have that experience as children, and I really didn't. So I just kind of grew up. I did. I would say I was what you might call a serial monogamist from like 14 or 15, all the way up until I got married, i pretty much had one long-term boyfriend after another, and sometimes just even a couple days in between relationships. It never, i can't say I ever really felt that weird to me. I never felt like I was doing anything wrong, but of course, other people right you talked about myths and judgment.
Speaker 2:
Other people had ideas, right. You must not have cared about him if you're just jumping onto this new relationship or you just can't be alone And so you just drag one relationship on until you find somebody new, or you don't know how to be independent, these kind of things, and so that was I mean. I see where someone who doesn't understand a lot about a person, or like what's going on in your head When you're a teenager, like I did not know what was going on in my head either. Right, i'm just kind of like making it up. I was like go along, like doing what feels right And yeah.
Speaker 2:
So that just pretty much continued all the way through college. I met my husband while I was a senior in college. At that point I had already decided to go get my master's in social work And yeah, we pretty much knew like from our first date. Like we both say now, you know, like we knew that that was our person And yeah. So like that whole thing happened, it was very like freeing relationship. I felt like he saw me for who I was and vice versa, and just kind of went through.
Speaker 2:
I went to grad school and like started getting interested more in like human sexuality and that kind of thing, thinking myself like what that would like for me. And, you know, came out of school, got a job. I worked mostly in medical social work, so hospice and hospitals, icus And the more I worked with different people, the more I just I don't know. I think I just reflected on what has been important to me. I had some experiences as a young child losing people that were important to me and stuff. I really dove into this grief and relationships space.
Speaker 2:
In my private practice nowadays I am a grief therapist, separate from doing my nominog relationship coaching, but the more I learned about death and what the meaning of life is. In conjunction to that, and it all just came back to relationships. I think I just was trying to figure myself out and follow these two paths that were diverging but coming together. I did the whole thing eventually came to private practice and working with people. A lot of people just started saying to me you should really work with couples. Have you ever worked with couples? I think you would be great. That coincided with in my personal life coming into my nominog journey. Then those two things came to a head at the same time. I ran into each other at first.
Speaker 1:
Yeah Well, i'd love to learn more about what your nominogamy nominogamous journey looked like. It's different for everyone and I think it's really interesting to hear the journey that people go on especially because you cater to newbies nominogamous newbies that it's helpful to hear what people's journeys were like. Can you go into that a little bit?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, this was about two and a half years ago. We're in the middle of the pandemic. We're all glued to our phones because there's nothing else to do. I don't know if it's that it was just more of this content was coming up or the algorithms doing what they do, but I felt like I was seeing a lot of generally alternative relationship type of stuff, whether it's like this is my husband and our girlfriend, or I don't have a primary partner and I have four boyfriends, or whatever.
Speaker 2:
I just started seeing this stuff and, with my interest in relationships, i just think humans in general are pretty fascinating. And why do I bring what they do? I think, with my background in social work and sociology, why do we do the things we do? Why do we believe what we believe? How does society contribute to those things? Yeah, i'm just thinking, oh, this is just an intellectual curiosity. It wasn't. I mean it was. But the more I consumed of that, i just kept thinking back to how my relationship patterns had been and how people would suggest like you can't possibly have loved that guy if you already love this guy and these kind of things, and I was like, shoot, this might be me, wow.
Speaker 1:
And here.
Speaker 2:
I am on what 28, been married for almost four years at that point and had been with my husband for six years and was like, cool, so what in the hell do I do now? Like what am I supposed to do? I don't. Is this me? I don't even know for sure that this is me. How would I ever know if I didn't try it? and what is even going on?
Speaker 2:
And in the middle of all that, i was kind of like coming to terms with my sexuality and apparently everyone but me knew that I was. Well, i came out as bisexual originally, but I would identify as queer now. But you know what I would use the word. I would say that I'm heteroflexible, like all through college, like for the right woman, yeah sure, maybe I'd entertain it kind of thing and people would laugh and I never had dated a woman or been in a relationship or really had any sexual experience with women, and so these things kind of like collided as like, oh, maybe this is how I could bring it to my husband, like that, i have never had this experience. And so that is what I did.
Speaker 2:
I would say I didn't do it in like the best way ever. I pretty much created like a bumble profile, did not publish it, so I didn't. I wasn't cheating, i wasn't talking to people, no one could see my profile, but I just kind of I needed, i think somatically, like in my body, to feel like what will it feel like to put one picture of me and write the words I'm married and polyamorous, or married and interested in exploring non-monogamy or whatever? just to see what I felt like.
Speaker 2:
And I kind of just like handed him my phone and he was like, okay, like what, where is this coming from? So you know, i kind of gave him the whole spiel and he just asked for some time to think about it. And of course you know I wasn't expecting any kind of answer right away. And yeah, we just kind of like we spent one long car ride to a friend's wedding, kind of writing down like our fears and like what we thought might be guidelines, just like we were honestly just winging it right, like we had no idea.
Speaker 2:
We did not know anyone who was non-monogamous, so we were kind of just like researching on line, hoping that they were legitimate sources and trying to make this up as we went along. That's how it started.
Speaker 1:
And how is it going? So now, that's almost maybe two and a half, two to three years ago.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, Yeah, So that was two and a half years ago. So you know again, it's. It's been up and down. I would honestly say I'm very lucky, We are we both are very lucky, I should say, in that I wouldn't say we've had a ton of like super low, lows, Like I don't. There were times where one of us would say like, oh my gosh, what are we doing? Is this worth it? Are we sure we want to do this? What if it breaks us apart? These kind of things. But on the whole, I really do believe that anytime we did feel that way it almost wasn't us speaking, that it was really this like societal messaging coming through us. Right, We would like hit a little bump, that like we've always had great communication and everyone has always reflected that back to us, And so I don't think that either of us ever truly thought like this could break us up. I think that was all like societal messaging getting internalized and realizing like hey, we're different And you know, that kind of thing.
Speaker 2:
So, yeah, we went along. I dated several women, I was in relationships with several women and then I just for some reason was like what do you think if I maybe dated a guy And he was like okay.
Speaker 2:
I don't. I feel like I have to process some things over again, kind of. And you know we went through that whole thing and you know any woman or or if I'm presenting human who has been on dating up knows that men can be creepy. So I would like switch my settings on and off because I would get weird messages until I pretty quickly met my other current partner. We've been together actually this is so like kitschy, but tomorrow is our one year match aversary. So OK, cute bit, so yeah, and that just kind of that relationship has been beautiful healing thing in that it was pretty similar to my relationship with my husband. We're like from the very beginning we were like oh wow, this is huge, like this is something big.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
And so I did have very significant emotional relationships with women. But I think and and I think that this kind of hit me, you know, it just felt different, and I don't think it's because he was a man, necessarily, just a personality thing. So that's where we are now. So I have my husband and my partner, and then my husband also dates. He dates a little bit more casually than I do, but yeah, that's kind of where we are.
Speaker 1:
So I love that. Thank you for sharing and being vulnerable and and sharing your story. I think everyone does it differently, although it sounds actually similar to my experience And I guess, like that that's a great segue into The myths of nonmonogamy, because when you're talking about it right, when you're in that, talking about a phase all the fears come up and those fears are infiltrated with these myths of what we think the experience is going to be like. Yeah, and so can you share some of maybe three or four of these myths about nonmonogamy and debunk them for us?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, Yeah. So I think the first one that really like to what you're speaking to with, like when you're in this talking part right Of what this is going to be like, I think the first one that kind of hit us as a couple is this and you know, debunking it for ourselves, but then like also getting other people's judgment right throughout time, Is this like there's got to be something missing?
Speaker 2:
or have to be dissatisfied with the relationship. You know, especially if you're a person which not everyone does, but especially if you're a person in a monogamous relationship opening up, there's got to be something wrong. Like why, if you have done the thing and you found the guy and you're telling me you knew from day one that this was you guys knew and you went through the whole thing, you got me Why, why would you So? I think that's a big misconception or myth is like that, if you are a person currently in a relationship and you want to explore nominogamy, there's got to be something wrong or missing or some level of dissatisfaction in your current relationship.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, so what's the truth? What it what? what has been your experience and what do you find with the people you work with?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, i think the truth is that that has nothing to do with it, and most you know healthly, you know monogamous people will tell you like there is nothing that I, there is nothing that I was missing with my husband, there was nothing that I looked at our relationship and was like, you know, everything would be so great and perfect if only this one thing right. Are there things that, like, i could give or take, or things like does he have flaws, do I have flaws? Yeah, of course, but this was never, has never been any questioning in my mind, if anything. quite the opposite, because I don't think that I could genuinely be doing this with someone If I did think that, if I felt like there was something missing.
Speaker 2:
I feel like I wouldn't feel that I'm on solid ground right to like go forth and trust each other enough. And we were just talking the other night and that's what he even said to me is like what people don't get just is that we trust each other so much right, and if we felt like something was wrong, we're missing something and the other person wasn't willing to try to like meet that need or whatever prior to opening up, this probably would not go very well. Yeah, and I also.
Speaker 1:
I also think that this idea of missing something create it comes from the expectation that my partner should be everything I need, And if they're not everything I need, then something is missing, And I just think that that is too heavy an expectation to put on any one person.
Speaker 1:
And I found so much of a relief when I could say well, I feel like I'm just, I'm a complex person And and I enjoy that.
Speaker 1:
You know, my husband really is so much for me And we have a family together And yet my other partner is also fulfills a part of me that I think if I were to ask my husband to fill or to fill is a weird word because it's, I think, leads to co dependency but to you know, I guess, reflect that part of me that it's like forcing something And it's too much pressure on him and and vice versa, that I feel too much pressure on you know, having to be everything for you know, my husband, and it is.
Speaker 1:
It's a beautiful thing when we can be happy for other people, that they get to express different sides of themselves, And it's up for me a win. Win because I don't have to, you know, force something in myself. That is is really, you know, not something that I want to do or like even. You know, like my husband likes to go to work and you know, learn, like, learn lots of like details about things, and I honor that in him, but it's also like it doesn't. I can go there but it's not like really exciting for me, but that's something he gets to do with his other partner and and I love that for him.
Speaker 2:
I think that's like so poignant and you know that's like it goes along with this. You know when you're getting, you know first you have to kind of like figure out how to to defuse this thought like in yourself around like monogamy, like monogamous ideas around like being everything for one person and vice versa. But I think you know when you get that from other people too, it's like the example I use, like your museum example is my husband loves the beach. I think sand is the most horrible thing ever. I appreciate how hard the tide and all of I understand it's natural and I think it's beautiful to look at. I just to me it is literally negative. Worth it To go to the beach? I'm hot, sticky, i'm grumpy, i burn, i do not like it. And my parents have a condo by the beach and my husband always wants to go and like have I gone? Yeah, i mean, it's a free place to stay to. I've gone, i'll go. I love that, he loves it.
Speaker 2:
But he doesn't have as much fun with me because I don't want to sit out there all day And it's just not like my thing. And you know, some people will say I've had people say to me Well, i don't like beaches either, but my partner does, so I do it for them. And I'm like, okay, and I do and have done it for him. But she wouldn't be right if someone was like, oh my God, i love the beach, yeah, i wanted to go with him. They'd have so much more fun, they'd stay out there all day long, they'd swim, they, all these things. I'm just going to sit under my umbrella, wrapped in a towel, with like layers of sunscreen on, like right. You know what is what's wrong with that? like you know, it doesn't mean I don't love him enough to, you know, give him something that I don't particularly love to do. Of course I can and will do that.
Speaker 1:
But also there's nothing wrong with somebody else, like going and doing those things with him, you know absolutely, And there's so many limiting beliefs And fears of you know, self worth and all of that wrapped up in it And too too many to dissect in a podcast episode. But but it's all there and that's why I love this idea of you know, conscious, being aware of these underlying feelings and unresolved wounds, and programming social programming that we have. That's part of the journey. I think of any relationship, specifically any relationship that is outside of the norm. So let's go into another one. That's another one.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, so this is a big one. I think it's very, very common that you know it's all about sex. We nominogamous people, we just want to have sex with everyone. Everything's orgy, you know, like this is all we do. Listen, i, literally I'm the last person who will yuck anybody's young. If you want to have orgies every weekend in your house, all your partners and all their, that is good for you. You know standing your power and you're knowing and like be yourself And also that's not how it is for everyone. This is not like a, you know. I think, unfortunately, this really gets put, especially this like this idea gets put on men a lot, where like yes and has two female partners.
Speaker 2:
It's like, oh, what a bro. Like he's so happy. Look at that, smile like, and that's it's. First of all, that's so gross, right. Like those women are not objects. Second of all, like how do you know anything about their dynamic? He could be asexual or on the a spectrum. Like you don't know what goes on in their bedroom. Also, it's none of your business.
Speaker 2:
So this like it's all about sex thing I just find so funny like and you know, because there's so many like sub sex, of non monogamy, like are there people who are non monogamous and it is purely or mostly for the sexual fantasy experience? novelty, absolutely. And does that mean that like every single time that those people have a new like sexual experience, that it's just like wham bam, thank you, man, and like didn't even look you in the eye and never had a drink or a conversation. Like a lot of people and that's what I see a lot with like swingers or people in just what they might call an open relationship, for you know, just sexual purposes, say you know, like I don't want to like, i want to at least have like one conversation and like connect on a human level. Right, you want to be able to talk to people about like what you like and don't like and need.
Speaker 2:
So, even when it is just about sex and air quotes right, because there's nothing wrong with that. Anyway, that does that. That that is not what's going on here. This is not just like an excuse for, you know, people to cheat.
Speaker 1:
Right.
Speaker 2:
Do people cheat in the non monogamous community? Yeah, yeah, in the monogamous community, you know, it absolutely happens there are toxic non monogamous folks, just like their toxic monogamous folks. Exactly happens, but that does not speak for all of us.
Speaker 1:
Right, there is such a. there's such a broad spectrum of non-monogamy and polyamory. there are a lot of platonic polyamorous relationships where there is more to the connection than sex And maybe in clients and people I've talked to, there's no sexual expression And that's a possibility too for people to explore a heart-centered, loving relationship with someone else. that could or could not include sex, but, yes, definitely a myth and understanding that there's just such a wide spectrum of connections in non-monogamy. So I love that you are bringing it today. All right, jess, what's another one? All?
Speaker 2:
right? Well, I have two other big ones, I think.
Speaker 1:
Oh good.
Speaker 2:
So one this one is so funny to me. I personally have gotten one side of this more than the other, but they both go around for sure that either non-monogamous folks must just be fighting jealousy all the time or they just don't experience jealousy at all And that's how they can do this right, as if we're like robots or something Like do I feel jealous of every single experience partner, whatever that my husband has? No, you know, when we talk so much about compersion in the non-monogamous community and like feeling that joy for your partner and my husband just had a date last night and I'm just like laying in bed listening to talk about it. He's like brushing his teeth talking about it And I'm just like laying there smiling, like, oh my God, that's so cute, oh my gosh. And also, you followed the most important polyamorous rule and brought me leftovers, so like this is all. They made homemade pasta. So I was like.
Speaker 2:
I really was like do I feel jealous of every single little thing? No, absolutely not. That would tear me apart, right? And am I a robot that never feels jealousy? Is that how non-monogamous people like do it right Where they just don't have this, they just like don't, like we're almost like missing part of our brain or something where, like, we just don't feel jealous. That's just not true. I think that we can't. You know, we don't teach emotions very well, in my opinion, and we teach emotions as like a it's got to be a negative or positive emotion and jealousy always goes in the negative bucket.
Speaker 2:
It's just frowned upon and seen as this, like that's not, that's a horrible thing to feel. We never want to feel that It's not good. Or in some varied times I have seen this like weird, like jealousy and possession mean that your partner loves you.
Speaker 1:
That's twisted.
Speaker 2:
Like if they get jealous of you because somebody's like hitting on you at a bar or something that somehow that means like, oh, they just love you so much. right, all of the stuff around jealousy and like, whether you feel it or you don't, it's bad, it just doesn't make any sense to me.
Speaker 1:
Yeah Well, jealousy, you know, i think that people label jealousy as uncomfortable and we shy away from the uncomfortable and I like to look at jealousy as an invitation. It doesn't feel good, but it's an invitation to look at something that is beneath it, because I think jealousy is a very surface emotion. It's the go to right. No, i can't do this. I feel jealous And in reality, i think it's always something that's deeper, that is an opportunity to heal and look at. Which is what I love about this lifestyle is that it is not that monogamy is not, but it is an opportunity to grow and evolve and learn more about myself And I get to be reflected.
Speaker 1:
You know that what's going on with me by more people than just one, which is great and uncomfortable, but I think, like that jealousy, compersion, kind of like ride that one goes on, is similar to any emotional journey and almost like liken it to grief.
Speaker 1:
You talk about being, you know specialty in grief and I'm currently going through a grieving process. I've just lost my mother and I've lost other people in my life that are close to me, so I know the ride that it takes of like grief is on its own. You know time and space and journey, and I find that sometimes, like something that maybe wouldn't make me jealous yesterday makes me jealous today, or feeling the feelings that I would label as jealousy because of either. You know, something that had happened, i got triggered, it was a particular circumstance that, just you know, dug in a little bit differently than the other one. And so really being conscious and aware of those emotions, those feelings, and then having the space to go deeper and really looking at what the opportunity is from that emotion, but it is a ride. It's like, i don't know, i didn't feel jealous about that yesterday, but today I'm just feeling, you know, i'm feeling the emotion boiling up.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, i say that all the time. Like you know, i love that you said and I say this all the time and I cannot articulate it today for some reason. But you know, like the feelings that will, the feelings that I'll label as jealousy, right, like it. There are so many things that can feel like jealousy And in my mind, like it doesn't really matter what label like, if it feels like jealousy to you, then it feels like jealousy to you, right? And like, like you said, what can we like if I feel jealous about something, probably that means there's something underneath there that's like maybe a need that I need met, that I'm not expressing or whatever.
Speaker 2:
It doesn't mean like that you're a bad person or that you you know. It means you just have some technique to do.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, and when we stop at jealousy it's just like that just makes us we're stopping there, we're missing, i feel, opportunities. That doesn't mean And jealousy comes up in monogamy, you know just friendships right Friendships I mean anything, any relationship.
Speaker 1:
When we start comparing ourselves or thinking that usually I think it's a self worth issue, like I'm not good enough, so I'm jealous of that person because from my outside perspective they seem like they're good at, they're better or whatever you know. So I love that. And let's get into the last big one. I'm ready, jess Yeah.
Speaker 2:
This is. I think you know this is different for everyone, not in, you know, non monogamy depending on, like, your relationship structure, but this one really like I feel like it punches me in the gut Sometimes, this idea that non monogamous relationships are inherently unstable and less committed than Good one.
Speaker 2:
This is like oh, i feel it in my gut even as I'm just saying it, because, first of all, like again with the language and like that word committed. Like what does that mean? Like what does it mean to be committed to a person in any you know relationship? right, there are people who feel very committed to their employer because they're great and they support them and they treat them like a human. And then there are people who are like no, this person's an asshole and I don't go committed to this company at all. Right, we commit in friendships. Right, We decide how much time, effort, energy, money, whatever we're going to put into these relationships. And so why does, for example, me having two partners? why does that necessarily mean that I, that A, our relationship, like my relationship with my other partner, is inherently less stable?
Speaker 2:
or, by proxy I get this a lot that, now that my husband and I are not monogamous, that our relationship has somehow changed in a way that makes our marriage less stable than it previously was, or that I can't possibly be whatever as committed means as committed to my husband as I was, or that I can't be making this commitment to my boyfriend in any kind of way. Right, And it doesn't have to be the same level of commitment. It's not about comparison, although that's what we like to do, because we're all about binary thinking as humans and we really have to deprogram that. But, like this, it's just so funny to me because my immediate reaction to you, like someone saying, Oh well, this is clearly like unstable, like this isn't going to work, Like it'll work for now, Like there's no way this is going to work long term because you're not as committed, and I'm over here, like, hold on, like again, not trying to say I'm not, you know, not a person who, like, thinks non monogamy or polyamory is like a superior form of relationship at all. You do, you, you know, yeah, but I'm over here like I'm sorry, I'm not committed.
Speaker 2:
I am holding up and pouring into and spreading my time, energy, effort, emotions across two very committed relationships. How can that be less committed? You know? and again, even if it's not polyamory or it's not, you know someone like I consider both of these men at this point to be my life partners. I have the same intentions with my boyfriend that I do with my husband. You know, sometimes those things don't work out just like a monogamy. Sometimes people split up, they get divorced, whatever. But that is my current intention. But even if that's not, you know where you're at. If you're not looking for life partners or if you were just, you know explaining different kind of non-monogamy, I just don't understand why that has to mean you're not committed.
Speaker 1:
Right, right, it's a lot of judgments about, again, the an air quotes type of person who, would you know, explore this lifestyle, and again, those judgments are coming from a place of, i think, people just not wanting to get to know other people's perspectives. So I love that debunking. I agree with you completely. It is not my experience. My experience, i feel more committed to my relationships and hoping that they are long term as well, and so I want to lead this into a question that I'm wondering what is your perspective on and how would you define success in relationships intimate relationships? Wow, because, right, we're so used to, we're so used to like well, it's successful relationship. And married 30 years to the same person, i'm successful in my relationship. Even though I'm miserable, i'm successful. So I really want to be redefining what success is in relationships.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, No, that's absolute. That's such a good question because, you know, are there couples who have been monogamous and faithful and married for 30 years and have what I would consider a beautiful, successful relationship, absolutely. And then are there I have heard from friends, from clients, whatever, you know, oh, we're going to my parents X, you know number of years anniversary, but I don't really know what we're celebrating, because they hate each other or because they don't spend any time together or what, right?
Speaker 2:
So why this obsession with length of time? right? If it's not for life, it's not important, it's not. And we, we don't do this with other kinds of relationships as much as romantic ones. You have childhood best friends. You have that, that friend you met at summer camp. That was like the best thing ever and you left camp crying in each other's arms, saying we'll never lose touch, we'll never lose touch, and you never spoke again and they moved to wherever. Right. That doesn't mean that that was not significant. Yeah, absolutely. That could have been a life altering relationship, perspective altering relationship, for it could be a week, right, people go on retreats or or those kinds of things. These are significant, sometimes pivotal relationships.
Speaker 2:
So I don't believe that, like, length of a relationship has anything to do with how successful, important or whatever it is.
Speaker 2:
I think for me, in the plainest way I can say it is, to me, a successful relationship is one in which the two, three, four I don't care however many people are in this relationship are actually themselves in the relationship.
Speaker 2:
Because if we are coming from a place, like if I am in a relationship where everything seems great from the outside and maybe even from the inside for the most part, and I've been in these really when I was younger and even when I dated in a nominogamy. If I am holding something of myself back or they're holding something of themselves back, do I have a successful relationship with them? No, because it's not really me Or it's not really them, right. So to me, the most successful relationships regardless of labels or time, or whether there's sex involved or not, or how much or how little or what it looks like if you live together all that stuff it's about are you able to actually show up as your authentic self, in your truth, in your knowing, in your power, and stand there with this person and choose them, regardless of what that looks like or how long.
Speaker 1:
Oh, that is so spot on. I love that, jess. Thank you so much for saying that, because when we get to the end of our lives and most people I mean you worked in hospice, so you know most people are reflecting on the quality of their relationships. And being who you are like, really being your truth in relationships, in your relationships, is going to determine how fulfilling they are. And allowing and accepting who you are, being your true self, and then bringing people into your life who also can meet you in that space, that is relationship success.
Speaker 1:
And you're right, whether it is a hello in passing, a two week relationship, a two month, two year, 20 year relationship, doesn't matter. It is the quality of that and it all starts from being your true, authentic self. So thank you for bringing that. That is excellent and amazing. And I want to also tell people that, if you are, what I love about what you do, jess, is you really cater to, like I said, non-monogamous newbies. So if you are thinking about this lifestyle or possibly going into it and you don't know where to start and you're nervous, take it from people who just kind of figured it out along the way.
Speaker 2:
I was winging it.
Speaker 1:
Right, it's really nice to have some support. So, jess, can you, in closing, tell us a little bit about your coaching and how that works?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, yeah. So I really, you know, i just I exactly what you just said. I wish I had had someone in the beginning to kind of you know, like not tell me what to do in like a prescriptive way, but just like reflect back to me or like talk to me about certain words I didn't know, or point me to books or whatever. So, yeah, i really try to cater to you know. I do a small program for people who, like maybe are in a monogamous relationship and want to have this conversation, like me, like staring at my phone, like what, how the heck am I supposed to have been this? So I do a small one month program for people in that situation where they're like I need, i can't live like this anymore. I need to tell my partner, but I don't know how to do that And he's, you know, whatever we make up in our heads of how that's gonna go.
Speaker 2:
And then really my big, like my signature, when I'm like super passionate, like through the roof excited about, is my non monogamous newbies coaching program, and it's a 12 week program. There's so much content, but it really takes people either like you've had the conversation and you decide you want to do this and or maybe you've kind of started already and you're like, oh shoot, we did this wrong. It is not working. We don't feel good, but we do really want to commit to trying this together for ourselves and for each other. But we need a reset, like we need to go back to the beginning.
Speaker 2:
Both of those groups of people I think can find success in this Cause. We really go through, like your why around non monogamy, not like what you want to get out of it or what specific experience, but like why, what's coming up in you that makes you want to explore this all the way through, like types of non monogamy terms, jealousy, conflict resolution, all of that stuff. So, yeah, it's a big deal. For me It feels like a you know kind of coming, coming to this point where I can really hopefully help other people, you know kind of get started on this and also have a community of other people who understand, so they don't feel so alone and judged by the world. So, yeah, that's, that's a program, that's beautiful.
Speaker 1:
First, i'll always talk about community and how important community is. I do want to touch on coming up with your why, because that when things get hard, because they're new, so they'll feel uncomfortable I don't want to use the word hard, but they will feel uncomfortable. Coming back to your why and having that, having it in the first place, then coming back to it, is really important and helpful and will help move you through those uncomfortable times. So, yeah, just really important work. Thank you so much for all the wisdom you brought today And I'm going to have all your information down in the show notes. So, please, everyone, go check her out. She also has a Facebook group, a Facebook group that you can go join and I'll link that as well. That way you can see more of who she is And hopefully, if you are wanting to explore this, reaching out to her to work with her. So, jess, thank you again. Thank you.
Speaker 2:
Thank you. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:
New episodes are released every Thursday. Stay connected with me through my website, carryjarrislowcom, instagram or TikTok. Stay curious. Every relationship is as unique as you are. Are you feeling stuck or unfulfilled in your intimate relationship? Do all your relationships end in the same way? Do you feel like you've lost the spark in your current relationship? Can you never even find one person who you want to explore a relationship with? If you answered yes to any of those questions, or sick and tired of feeling like a failure in your relationships and desperately desire a different experience, then my 8-week deep reprogramming intensive may be the answer for you.
Speaker 1:
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Speaker 1:
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